We all have narratives about nature and landscapes in our minds. Some outsiders would say: Hey, I think it is great what you are doing here, let me start constructing a road to your reserve. Or, let me build a hotel on that mountaintop there. This is all possible, but it will lead to a confrontation, because... hold on, you might destroy what we have actually... what we see as the capital of this area... So, you do choose to enter into confrontation at times? We indeed have to sometimes, but there is always hope that this will not lead to a fracture. We want people to see alternatives; that they do not always have to go for their own gains, but that they can also take the wider community into account. It is just like in the Netherlands. There is never one ideal route... There will always be a few of these little hick-ups along the way. Could you say a bit more about those hick-ups? An important part of our work in this area will be the question of how we can get people on board. We are speaking here mostly of the informal land users, the real landowners are gone. But those herders and hunters do make use of all those thousands of properties, they hunt there, they take care of their sheep. They in fact manage the land. They also use poison, kill the wolves. They make sure that there is no wildlife at all. How can you provide them with an alternative? Maybe continue hunting, but in a different way. Stop herding sheep, but start looking after the ibex instead? We could think of ways for them to play a role that provides them with dignity; that they can be proud of, and that may be economically better than what they have now. But wouldn't such a strategy nevertheless lead to further confrontations? What do you want with this 'confrontation'? We are hardly ever involved in one. Is there a scientific agenda behind this question? 1 ...We will never opt for confrontation ourselves, it is always a local team that has to assess whether they have to deal with those interests and if so, how. We only try to facilitate people with the means that we have. Can we give, organise, or advise something? Provide a loan? But do you also guide them in conflict situations? Yes.... What is your policy then in such situations? That is actually just our experience. In our team of ten people, we are all people who already have 20, 25, 30 years of experience with nature conservation. And we think that this is the best basis to judge how to deal with such conflicts in practical situations. We have been in hundreds of such situations, in the Netherlands or abroad. Our CEO has a lot of experience in Africa. This practical experience is the most useful for local organisations. Could you describe which conflicts your organisation has dealt with in rewilding this region? Are there places where you met a lot of resistance? Well, I think that... I don't think in terms of problems actually... Even the case we just discussed, I do not see that as a problem. It might just need some time, but in principle nothing is going wrong... Conservation tourism i...