Using the method of decisive creatures (see Kellner and Shelah [8]) we show the consistency of "there is no increasing ω 2 -chain of Borel sets and non(N ) = non(M) = non(N ∩M) = ω 2 = 2 ω ". Hence, consistently, there are no monotone Borel hulls for the ideal M ∩ N . This answers Balcerzak and Filipczak [1, Questions 23, 24]. Next we use finite support iteration of ccc forcing notions to show that there may be monotone Borel hulls for the ideals M, N even if they are not generated by towers.