That is right. It is the range with scattering. FANO: I think Lea's values were even lower, if I remember right, as compared with other averages. POLLARD: They probably would be, because ours are not much lower, and the scattering would certainly introduce at least, let's say, a 40 per cent change. That is putting it pretty roughly. FRIEDELL: What was this enzyme? POLLARD: Solid invertase. BURTON: How low could you go in electron energy? POLLARD: The lowest effective energy is one volt. BURTON: Could you actually work with energies so low? POLLARD: Yes, in order to work with one volt you have to work with monolayers, and this has been done by Hutchinson who really is in charge of this work. If you study the action on a monolayer of bovine serum, as measured by the Rothen technique in combination with the specific antibody, you can detect an effect of one electron volt. PLATZMAN: How do you avoid electrostatic effects? POLLARD: I am not too sure except I know they are taken care of. It is not simple. Most of the precautions that have to be taken in these things were found necessary and were taken. In other words, a lot of inconsistencies occurred until proper grids and adequate grounding and proper conductivity of the surface were secured, but once these things were done, it is pretty clear that you can get effects down to one volt which is rather interesting. They need very large amounts of electrons. BURTON: How closely do you fix that one volt? POLLARD: To about 30 per cent. So you might say it is from 0,85 to 1. 15 ev. KAMEN: You said there were some energy values for which there was very little inactivation. POLLARD: If you are referring to bacterial virus, you measure the thickness of the skin. KAMEN: This, I believe, was with enzymes. There was a certain energy at which you got no inactivation. POLLARD: Yes. Well, with the preparation we use, if you are bombarding an enzyme, not a monolayer, then there certainly is a dirt layer of some kind. No matter how pure the enzyme, you will have some impurity in the material on the surface. We have not been able to carry out any really low voltage work except with monolayers. KAMEN: As far as you know, any energy whatever would have an effect? POLLARD: Not below one volt. Below one volt apparently the effect really does die down. BURTON: The important point is that you believe that you have established that a one-volt electron has produced an effect. POLLARD: It must be stressed that the cross section for this process of one volt is very, very small, and in order to get somewhere near the ordinary cross section which is associated with ionizing radiation, the energy has to be much higher. Of the order of 5 to 20 volts. In that range. It is still going up very quickly. BURTON: Will you have a word to say about why cross sections for onevolt processes are so small? Do you think that the cross section is really very small or that the finding is merely a reflection of your method of measurement? POLLARD: I think this is a secondary process of some kind. BURTON: Do you me...