An identity of the form x 1 · · · x n ≈ x 1π x 2π · · · x nπ where π is a non-trivial permutation on the set {1, . . . , n} is called a permutation identity. If u ≈ v is a permutation identity, then (u ≈ v) [respectively r(u ≈ v)] is the maximal length of the common prefix For , r ≥ 0 and n > 1 let B ,r,n denote the set that consists of n! identities of the formwhere π is a permutation on the set {1, . . . , n}. We prove that for each permutative nilvariety V and each ≥ (V) and r ≥ r(V) there exists n > 1 such that V is definable by a first-order formula in L (var B l,r,n ) if = r or V is definable up to duality in L(var B ,r,n ) if = r.